From J. Robert Oppenheimer to Robert J. Schrieffer, ICTP's Scientific Council has proven instrumental in shaping the Centre's research priorities and programs. This year, the Council welcomed a new chairman, its sixth. Praveen Chaudhari presided over his first Council meeting this June.

New Directions
Old Values

Praveen Chaudhari, the new Chairman of ICTP Scientific Council, has enjoyed a career in science marked by moments of dramatic change followed by long periods of stability. He was born and raised in India. He received his undergraduate degree from the Indian Institute of Technology and his Master and Ph.D. degrees from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. He worked at IBM for more than 30 years, where he rose to the position of Vice President for Science. His personal research interests have focused on condensed matter physics, particularly investigations into the structure and properties of solids, superconductivity and magnetism. While in Trieste to attend this year's Scientific Council meeting, Chaudhari sat down with the Editor of News from ICTP for a wide-ranging discussion on the current state of scientific research. What follows is an excerpt of their hour-long talk.

The nature of scientific research has changed dramatically over the past two decades. What do you think is driving these fast-paced changes?

There are many factors: new theoretical techniques, discoveries, instruments, computational power, ease of communication and unprecedented interactions between different disciplines of science and, sometimes, technology. Let me elaborate on the last point using condensed matter physics as an example. Twenty years ago, condensed matter physicists explained the behavior of solids in terms of their atomic structure. As a result, much effort was being directed at undercovering the location of atoms. Today, in contrast, we play with atoms. Put another way, instead of accepting the system for what it is and trying to understand it in terms of its electronic and atomic structure, we can now assemble atoms in specific ways and subsequently examine how the system responds. Such an approach has broad implications for the practitioners of science. For example, university-based disciplines--biology, chemistry and physics--are now more seamlessly connected through the study of atomic assemblage of matter. As a result, researchers increasingly view themselves not as biologists, chemists or condensed matter physicists, but as members of a team "playing" with atoms and molecules. In a culture that has evolved over the centuries into a discipline-based system, this represents a radically new approach.

When ICTP Director Miguel Virasoro spoke at the opening of the Scientific Council meeting, he said that Abdus Salam believed science's highest calling and most important contributions involved understanding the laws of nature. What you're describing goes well beyond this view.

Yes, it appears to do that. Yet, the truth is we never go beyond nature because everything ultimately is a part of nature. Scientists, however, are moving beyond the traditional boundaries of their disciplines. For example, geneticists are manipulating DNA and so are physicists who view DNA as a long-chained carbon-based molecule. The point is that condensed matter scientists no longer passively rely on what nature gives; instead, they are modifying the physical world in an effort to achieve desired outcomes.

How do you respond to those who speak about the end of science?

In my view, anyone who talks about the end of science has run out of ideas. That can certainly happen to an individual, but science, as a collective enterprise, never ends. Whenever someone makes such comments, they're telling me more about their own state of mind than they are about the state of science. The fact is that we have yet to answer many of the fundamental questions of science. Let me take just two examples from current research to illustrate my point. We are still struggling to unify the forces of nature, and our understanding of the evolution of the universe--and of the matter in it--remains incomplete. By the same measure, our knowledge of the life sciences is, at best, primitive. In saying this, I am not even referring to profound issues like: What is life or consciousness? How do they arise? How do you measure them? Science is an enterprise that will never end.

The Centre is now more than 30 years old. What changes do you see taking place within it?

The Centre realizes that it cannot take on every aspect of science. Clearly, if the Centre had more money it could do more. But budget considerations have forced it to choose areas largely in line with its historic strengths in high energy physics, mathematics and condensed matter physics. The Centre also realizes more clearly than it did 30 years ago that the level of scientific and technological expertise in developing countries varies substantially and that one strategy cannot apply to all. As a result, ICTP has begun to devise a specialized approach depending on which country it's dealing with. For example, countries in sub-Saharan Africa not only need to acquire on-the-shelve science and technology but must develop sustainable strategies allowing science and technology to grow. Conversely, India and China have enjoyed long histories of scientific research--and have much to show for their efforts. The Centre must interact with these nations in different ways if it hopes to remain effective. That's exactly what the Centre is doing by tailoring its approach. Time and again at the Scientific Council meeting, we heard the Director and staff members say, "This is what we need for this group of developing countries and here is what we need for that group." With its reforms now in place, the Centre is at the threshold of a new stage of operation. It's saying, "With the experience we've acquired and the changes we've made, what new areas of inquiry should we become involved in?" One area that has been identified is the physics of climate and weather. Research in this field does not involve fundamental science in the same way that research in high energy physics or mathematics does. But it does require the application of fundamental laws of nature to explain very complex systems. It's a research area that requires a great deal of computer modelling and thus blurs distinctions between theory and experimentation. It's also multidisciplinary. And it's a science that interests the public. In short, the physics of weather and climate embodies all of the current trends in scientific research.

What changes do you foresee in the Centre's relationship with the developed world?

The developed world is as important to the Centre as the developing one. I know it's often been said that ICTP should have more representation from the developing world. But I'm not convinced that such a strategy would be the right one. I realize that when you're thinking about training you should target the developing world because that's where training is needed. However, if you're seeking to explore the frontiers of science, you need outstanding people from all points of the compass. For this reason, setting arbitrary quotas on participation may be counterproductive. In fact, an unusual and enduring strength of the Centre has been to serve as a meeting place for scientists from all parts of the world. The ICTP offers a very rich set of research and training activities throughout the year and it's the quality of these activities that makes them special.

Your responses have focused on the blurring of boundaries--between disciplines, nations, regions and even the developed and developing worlds. Are these boundaries fading and, if they are, what does this mean for the Centre?

I have emphasized multidisciplinary research because that's where our conversation began. However, I believe just as passionately that basic knowledge in high energy and condensed matter physics and mathematics, which is pursued at the ICTP and which remains at the core of Abdus Salam's living legacy, has proven indispensable in providing a solid bedrock for the Centre. That bedrock has served-and continues to serve--talented scientists from every corner of the Earth.

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